[10:08] Jarvis Quan: Well let's begin so we don't run over. I really am obsessive about trying to finish within an hour.
[10:08] Jarvis Quan: I don't have that great of an attention span.
[10:09] Jarvis Quan: I will begin by freely acknowledging I am plagiarising heavily from the physicians of Vonda.
[10:09] Jarvis Quan: Our physicians developed an apprentice training program that works very well.
[10:09] Jarvis Quan: They offer nine classes each one covering one aspect of being a physician and each on with an accompanying practical.
[10:09] Jarvis Quan: Apprentices from anywhere can join in the sequence and many do.
[10:10] Jarvis Quan: The classes are designed to be supportive and friendly as well as informative. And they are informal.
[10:10] Jarvis Quan: SO based on that model I designed this series.
[10:10] Jarvis Quan: we have a specific set of material to cover today but we can pause at any point for questions and comments.
[10:10] Jarvis Quan: Also if someone wishes to correct me, that's fine too.
[10:10] Jarvis Quan: Any obvious errors or points of disagreement just say so.
[10:10] Jarvis Quan: This way everyone learns including me.
[10:11] Jarvis Quan: This first class was suggested by the scribe Paul Susa when we began developing it.
[10:11] Jarvis Quan: The purpose is to make sure everyone understands the structure of Gorean government.
[10:11] Jarvis Quan: This really applies mostly to the so called High Cities, or the civilized parts of Gor.
[10:11] Jarvis Quan: If you have read the books you will know there are many regions where some of this doesn't apply.
[10:12] Jarvis Quan: the diagram serves as a summary and as my own prompt.
[10:12] Jarvis Quan: And again it is for sale for 0L and everyone is welcome to buy it and share it, the texture full perms is inside
[10:12] Jarvis Quan: Let's begin at the top.
[10:13] Jarvis Quan: Oh one other reminder, classes are officiciously OOC so we can discuss certain things freely but we should try to stay IC as much as we can. Good practive.
[10:13] Jarvis Quan: Does anyone know what the Priest Kings actually are?
[10:13] Jarvis Quan: Recalling we are High Caste scribes so we know.
[10:13] Telra Huntress: @
[10:13] Lucy Bronet is Offline
[10:13] Jarvis Quan: Yes Lady Talra?
[10:13] amelia Rae: @
[10:14] Jarvis Quan: Welcome and please have a seat and you buy the poster there Pari
[10:14] Telra Huntress: Large insects that rule gor, having moved it from some other location, living in the sadar mts.
[10:14] Jarvis Quan: yes.
[10:14] Pari Edenflower: Thank you Jarvis
[10:14] Jarvis Quan: Lady Amelia do you have anything to add to that?
[10:14] Kazar Bruhl: @
[10:15] amelia Rae: just that i think they were golden in colour
[10:15] Jarvis Quan: yes they are described as Golden.
[10:15] amelia Rae: and looked like giant ants
[10:15] Jarvis Quan: I have head both ants and preying manits, Kazar?
[10:15] Jarvis Quan: mantis
[10:15] Kazar Bruhl: upon reading Priest Kings I thought they were extra terrestrial in origin... trans planetary creatures in nature
[10:15] Jarvis Quan: Yes that's right
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: They live in the Sardar mountain and what happens if you go there without their permission?
[10:16] amelia Rae: @
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: Amelia?
[10:16] amelia Rae: blue flame death?
[10:16] Telra Huntress: @
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: Close
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: Lady Telra
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: ?
[10:16] Telra Huntress: Your body parts rain down over the plains below
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: Right
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: You get thrown off the mountains to your death. Carcasses are found at the foot of the mountains in the desert.
[10:16] amelia Rae: ohh
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: we'll get to blue flame
[10:16] Jarvis Quan: In other words it's bad
[10:17] Kazar Bruhl chuckles.
[10:17] Jarvis Quan: Animals refuse to go there and if you forced a tarn it falls and dies.
[10:17] Jarvis Quan: Now the Priest Kings control Gor and make the laws.
[10:17] Jarvis Quan: Well the important ones.
[10:17] Jarvis Quan: The main thing is they limit technology specifically weapons to a subset of rather primitive ones.
[10:17] Jarvis Quan: We're not precisely sure why, but they do.
[10:18] Jarvis Quan: They regard humans as primitive nd violent
[10:18] Jarvis Quan: They restrict Gorean weapons to primitive and violent ones.
[10:18] Jarvis Quan: Swords, cross bows, that sort of thing.
[10:18] Jarvis Quan: If anyone invents or imports things like rifles they are killed for it.
[10:18] Jarvis Quan: It can take the Priest Kings a while to get around to it, a year or more even but eventually it comes to their attention and the person dies.
[10:18] Jarvis Quan: SO where would advanced weapons be imported in from?
[10:18] Telra Huntress: @
[10:19] Jarvis Quan: Lady Telra?
[10:19] Telra Huntress: Earth
[10:19] Scarlet Colclough: @
[10:19] Pari Edenflower: @
[10:19] Jarvis Quan: Yes Earth is one source.
[10:19] Jarvis Quan: Lady Scarlet?
[10:19] Scarlet Colclough: was going to say earth
[10:19] Jarvis Quan: okay Pari did you have anything else to add?
[10:19] Telra Huntress shifts a little and sits onher hands
[10:19] Pari Edenflower: Actually the Kurii are more responsible for introducing advanced weapons.... Earthmen cant transport their weapons to Gor
[10:20] Jarvis Quan: Good point.
[10:20] Jarvis Quan: The Kurri sometimes provide transport and bring in weapons
[10:20] Jarvis Quan: sometimes their own sometims from earth
[10:20] Jarvis Quan: There is a scene in the second to last book where an earth man has a pistol and all the Gorean make him leave it outside the camp circle, terrified of what will happen if the Priest Kings notice it.
[10:21] Jarvis Quan: What is the form of death that the Priest Kings use as a warning for such cases?
[10:21] Jarvis Quan: We have had it mentioned already.
[10:21] amelia Rae: @
[10:21] Jarvis Quan: Amelia?
[10:21] amelia Rae: flame death .. try that one again
[10:21] Jarvis Quan: Right
[10:21] amelia Rae: smiles
[10:21] Jarvis Quan: crispy blue flame
[10:21] Jarvis Quan: I sometimes wonder if the color blue isn't a warning to us scribes not to get too smart.
[10:22] Kazar Bruhl nods, having considered something to that effect as well
[10:22] Jarvis Quan: The Priests Kings are rather neglectful, sort of benevolent dictators.
[10:22] Jarvis Quan: They are at war with another type of alien that we have already mentioned.
[10:22] Jarvis Quan: And these guys apparently look like abominable snowmen.
[10:22] Jarvis Quan: And they eat slave girls or keep them as pets
[10:23] Gilbert Froobert: what?
[10:23] Jarvis Quan: And if any of you saw the most recent Star Trek movie I almost fell off my seat laughing when a a Kur was seen racing up to eat Kirk and then instead got attacked by the monster from the Alien movie.
[10:23] Kazar Bruhl laughs
[10:23] Telra Huntress chuckles softly
[10:24] Jarvis Quan: There is always spies and tension between the Priest Kings and the Kur. Humans spy for both sides.
[10:24] Jarvis Quan: The way the Priest Kings control Gor is via their spies, which in the books includes men like Samos the slaver of Port Kar, and normally the Initiates
[10:25] Jarvis Quan: The Initates are the Priesthood of Gor.
[10:25] Jarvis Quan: Some of the Initates even have little antenae and seem to be directly hooked to the Priest Kings.
[10:25] Jarvis Quan: Others seem to be wannabees who claim to be but really aren't.
[10:25] Jarvis Quan: Occasionally even an Initiate will get the Blue Flame as happened in the first book.
[10:25] Jarvis Quan: The Initiates are nominally in charge of the yearly pilgrimages known as the Sardar fair.
[10:26] Jarvis Quan: Everyone in Gor is supposed to go to a fair at least once in their life.
[10:26] Jarvis Quan: Think Mecca
[10:26] Jarvis Quan: The fairs are conducted by the Initiates but really it is the merchants who are running everything.
[10:26] Jarvis Quan: Without the merchants there would be no fairs.
[10:26] Jarvis Quan: And at the Fairs each year the merchants accomplish a whole lot of things such as standardizing weights and measures.
[10:27] Jarvis Quan: Also they set the merchants laws for that year.
[10:27] Jarvis Quan: Merchant law is the only law that is fairly well universal to Gor.
[10:27] manuella Skute shivers
[10:27] Jarvis Quan: Merchant law is the same city to city but laws in cities vary from city to city.
[10:27] Jarvis Quan: So in effect, merchants are the real power of Gor.
[10:27] Jarvis Quan: But they are wise enough to not let on to the rest of us know that this is the case.
[10:28] Jarvis Quan: Individual castes also meet and exchange information and share caste standards and set their codes.
[10:28] Jarvis Quan: Merchants are technically part of the low castes.
[10:28] Jarvis Quan: However they often transcend that which I will explain.
[10:28] Jarvis Quan: All low castes receive a limited form of education known as first knowledge.
[10:28] Jarvis Quan: It includes only enough detail as is needed to function and some deliberately incorrect teaching designed to help keep them content with their lot.
[10:28] Jarvis Quan: So they are taught Gor is a flat disk and if they travel too far, they might fall off the edge.
[10:29] Jarvis Quan: They have superstitions about the power someone can get by knowing their "real" name and so often are addresses simply as by their profession or by nicknames.
[10:29] Jarvis Quan: They are particualrly susceptible to the Priest Kings
[10:29] Jarvis Quan: I can't help thinking merchants are not restricted in this way.
[10:30] Jarvis Quan: I suspect it is because there are strong ties and many interactions with the high caste scribes.
[10:30] Jarvis Quan: Merchants hire scribes, scribes hire merchants. Their work seem to overlap a lot.
[10:30] Jarvis Quan: And Merhcants will intermarry with High Cstes which other low castes don't normally seem to do.
[10:30] Jarvis Quan: Others might say scribes and merchant collude to control Gor.
[10:30] Jarvis Quan: I do not say this. looks innocent
[10:30] Jarvis Quan: There are five High Castes.
[10:31] Jarvis Quan: Initiates. I have already described them.
[10:31] Jarvis Quan: Scribes are next. Our color is blue
[10:31] Jarvis Quan: We are responsible for just about everything involved in running government. We are teachers, accountants, administrators, librarians.
[10:31] Jarvis Quan: In short if you aren't fighting, building or healing, and you are high caste and not an initiate you are a scribe.
[10:31] Jarvis Quan: Many of the lower caste are illiterate all but scribes are all able to read and write.
[10:32] Jarvis Quan: All high caste have Second Knowledge which includes an understanding of astronomy, knowledge of Earth, of history geography, in short a basic good education.
[10:32] Jarvis Quan: Most Gorean live in cities towns or villages. This is because Gor is a dangerous place and people need to band together to stay safe.
[10:32] Jarvis Quan: Each of these units or collections of people is run by their own set of laws. Except in times of war or other trouble, cities are run by an Administrator.
[10:33] Jarvis Quan: This is a single person who has basic charge of everything but who answers to the High Council. Our color is reportedly brown for two reasons I think. Brown is also the color of peasants so brown keeps us Administrators humble. Also all the crap hits us and stops with us.
[10:33] Jarvis Quan: The High Council consists of representatives of each High Caste. So Gor is an oligarchy of sorts.
[10:33] Jarvis Quan: In many cities we have one elected representative from each caste known as the "High".
[10:33] Jarvis Quan: Also we have a Caste leader known as the "chief"
[10:33] Jarvis Quan: There is no such distinction in the books.
[10:33] Jarvis Quan: High and Chief appear to be used interchangably.
[10:34] Jarvis Quan: Perhaps in some cities High + Chief and in others High =Chief. Nor is there any quote I am aware that says only one of each caste in High Council.
[10:34] Jarvis Quan: In fact the descriptions of High Council inslude many people, benches full of each caste.
[10:34] Jarvis Quan: We elect our representives for each caste here in Vonda but in some cities they may well be appointed.
[10:35] Jarvis Quan: It is also said cities are run by a few powerful families.
[10:35] Jarvis Quan: In Vonda only male caste members vote for the High Council representative. This seems to be a Gorean standard.
[10:35] Jarvis Quan: I very recently was reviewing Vonda laws, which I did not write myself. I was stunned to see that contrary to what I thought Women can be elected to serve on High Council if the men vote them in.
[10:35] Jarvis Quan: As in the Books rules vary by city.
[10:35] Jarvis Quan: There is also often tension between the competing interests of the High Castes.
[10:35] Jarvis Quan: Blue and Green versus Scarlet, Scarlet and Blue versus Builder, Builder and Physician versus Scribe and everyone against the Initiates.
[10:36] Jarvis Quan: And then there are Ubars....
[10:36] Jarvis Quan: There are two types of Ubars as far as I can tell.
[10:36] Jarvis Quan: There are "nice" Ubars who are given absolute power in times of war, appointed by the High Council and chosen from among the warriors by the warriors. They give power back after the crisis is over.
[10:36] Jarvis Quan: Think of an earth situation such as a War Meaures act where the military are given sweeping powers to handle an emergency.
[10:37] Jarvis Quan: Such an Ubar would still answer to High Council.
[10:37] Jarvis Quan: Then there are Ubars who declare themselves in charge and because the warriors back them they seize power.
[10:37] Jarvis Quan: We scribes think of them as bad ubars, warriors think of them as great leaders who cut the crap.
[10:37] Jarvis Quan: I have not met a warrior yet who doesn't wish we had an Ubar all the time.
[10:37] Jarvis Quan: IN the BOoks such an Ubar was a rare thing and not tolerated.
[10:37] Jarvis Quan: IN SL Gor it seems to be the most common form of government.
[10:38] Jarvis Quan: So depending on who is power, either the Ubar or the High Council make the laws for the city and enforce them.
[10:38] Jarvis Quan: If they step on the merchants toes they get smacked around because the merchants withdraw all their business.
[10:38] Jarvis Quan: Law is enforced by warriors but warriors are directed by and controlled by the Magistrates and Prefects.
[10:38] Jarvis Quan: Magistrates are of two types.
[10:38] Jarvis Quan: They are merchant magistrates whose job it is to enforce and to support merchant law.
[10:38] Jarvis Quan: And then there are city magistrates who are responsible for enforcing city law.
[10:39] Jarvis Quan: Magistrates are technically scribes. They are one of the subcastes of scribes. I would say Magistrates are more a combination Lawyer/Judge, but people can appeal their ruling and so you get Praetors who are judges as well.
[10:39] Jarvis Quan: Because magistrates are appointed in a particular city you may find someone who is a magistrate who is not a scribe.
[10:39] Jarvis Quan: This goes for Ambassadors as well. There is one instance in the books of an Ambassador who was warriors.
[10:40] Jarvis Quan: This makes sense because some warriors were illterate oafs who, as my companion likes to put it, have been hit on the head one too many times.
[10:40] Jarvis Quan: But other warriors are described who were highly literate extremely well read, poets even.
[10:40] Jarvis Quan: So in general Ambassadors and Magistrates are scribes but that is a matter of convenience because they are educated to take these jobs. It is not an absolute rule.
[10:41] Jarvis Quan: I came across some other terms that were mentioned including archons who seem to be record keepers who judge from the records in the past.
[10:41] Jarvis Quan: Ubara. In some situations an Ubara is like a Queen with great power.
[10:41] Jarvis Quan: and in others it is simply a title given to a companion of an ubar and she may be one of 200 Ubaras an Ubar may have.
[10:41] Jarvis Quan: There is no known case in the books of an Ubara who was not without an Ubar except for Talena being put in power in Ar by Cos and even then she answered to a "Regent".
[10:42] Jarvis Quan: Tatrix is a specific name for a female leader of one city, Tharna.
[10:42] Telra Huntress: @
[10:42] Jarvis Quan: Sometimes a woman was put in power, as in the story on the books about Corycus, by men for some nefarious purpose but that was not the norm.
[10:43] Jarvis Quan: Lady telra?
[10:43] Telra Huntress: flys to her headboard and back...
[10:43] Jarvis Quan: All right so we have finished our flying summary of government in Gor. I will now pause and we can take questions or comments or discuss points.
[10:43] Jarvis Quan: Starting with Lady telra.
[10:43] Telra Huntress: What about in kajira, I am reading that now, and the city in it was run by a Tatrix
[10:44] Jarvis Quan: Just a moment let me open it
[10:44] Tali Ceriano: yes, Sheila of Corcyrus
[10:44] Telra Huntress: Sheila
[10:44] Telra Huntress: yes
[10:44] Jarvis Quan: I stand corrected.
[10:44] Jarvis Quan: Two cities then.
[10:44] Tali Ceriano: @
[10:44] Jarvis Quan: ladt Tali?
[10:44] Jarvis Quan: See I love doing these classe sbecause I learn as well.
[10:45] Pfoto Toros: *grins*
[10:45] Jarvis Quan: opening kajira now
[10:45] Tali Ceriano: Jarvis, my question is about High Councils, which according to the books were comprised of elected members from each of the High Castes, but I am wondering if the lower castes had any representation at all?
[10:46] Jarvis Quan: Well in Vonda I have a "High merchant" who speaks for them but he doesn't have a vote.
[10:46] Joshy Pond is Offline
[10:47] Jarvis Quan: I have found no eivdence for them having voting pwoers.
[10:47] Jarvis Quan: "From this moment on," said the girl, "accustom yourself
to thinking of yourself as Sheila, Tatrix of Corcyrus."
"Sheila, Tatrix of Corcyrus?" I said.
"Yes," said the girl.
"What is a Tatrix?" I asked.
Kajira of Gor [Gor Series Book 19]
by John Norman
"A female ruler," she said.
I looked at her, disbelievingly.
"It is a great honor for me," said the girl, "to serve the
Tatrix of Corcyrus." pg 102
[10:47] Jarvis Quan: The quote getting back to the previous comment.
[10:47] romantiqueros Michalski is Online
[10:48] Jarvis Quan: SO it as Corycus not Brundisium.
[10:48] Vivienne Daguerre is Offline
[10:48] Jarvis Quan: Any other questions or comments?
[10:48] Tali Ceriano: So if a Slaver for the city of Vonda wished a voice, for instance, he would speak to the High Merchant, who would bring up his concerns to the High Council, yes?
[10:48] Jarvis Quan: Yes, although more recently I have also had the Lady who is head of the Slaver's Guild of Vonda attending.
[10:48] lusitano Coba is Online
[10:49] Tali Ceriano: thank you, Sir ... done
[10:49] Jarvis Quan: I also will order various people who have topics come to the meeting as nonvoting guests and advisors.
[10:49] Jarvis Quan: There isn't that much description of the meetings so I am kind of guessing.
[10:50] Tali Ceriano: *nods*
[10:50] Kazar Bruhl: @
[10:50] SIlk Pillow: Time for dialog has expired, click again for use...
[10:50] Jarvis Quan: Kazar?
[10:51] Kazar Bruhl: To what extent is it forbidden to discuss the Priest Kings among lower castes...? I have heard various things from it being frowned upon, to it being a crime.
[10:51] Kazar Bruhl: or among high castes for that matter, outside of initiates?
[10:51] Jarvis Quan: Well they were very superstitious and I think people didn't like to talk about them just incase you might say something that would get you flamed.
[10:51] Jarvis Quan: The best case I can think of was from the .....
[10:51] Jarvis Quan: hang on
[10:52] Jarvis Quan: Prize I think I am searching now.
[10:52] Jarvis Quan: An earthman is there and he has a pistol and he says the Priest Kings don't exist.
[10:52] Sledge Danitz is Offline
[10:53] Prithan Parx is Offline
[10:53] Jarvis Quan: The others disagree and force him to leave his pistol outside the campsite.
[10:53] Jarvis Quan: But they do discuss them.
[10:53] Kazar Bruhl: I havent been able to understand why the fact that we are all controlled by giant grasshoppers is not all the talk, heh. But blue flame would indeed be a deterrent.
[10:53] Jarvis Quan: The High Caste are aware of their nature but knowing they can get flamed don't exactly talk about it a lot.
[10:53] Kazar Bruhl: Thank you, I can understand the superstition angle.
[10:54] Jarvis Quan: SO the High Caste often have great disdain for the Initiate but since the Priest kings tolerate them, the High Caste does as well. Although appanretly the Pirest Kings are amused and puzzled by the Initates and people worshipping them as gods.
[10:55] Jarvis Quan: h here it is.
[10:55] Jarvis Quan: "We are nine men," said Portus Canio, puzzled.
"I have this," said Mirus, reaching within his robes.
Ellen cried out in misery.
"Perhaps the slave can explain it to you," said Mirus.
In the hand of Mirus, brandished, glinting, there shone the
grayish steel of an automatic pistol.
"Beware, Masters!" cried Ellen. "It is a weapon!"
"Surely an unlikely weapon," said Selius Arconious. "It
seems blunt for a knife, and small for a club."
[10:55] Jane Fetiocci is Offline
[10:55] Jarvis Quan: "Perhaps he stabs melons with it," said one of the fellows
at the wagon.
"And you draw the juice out through the hole?" speculated
"It might do to give an urt a headache, if you hit it hard
enough," suggested another. "Perhaps that is what it is for."
"No, no, please, Masters!" cried Ellen. "I know what that
is! I have seen such things! I do not know a word in Gorean
for it. I do not think there is such a word. But it is dangerous.
It can kill, kill! Believe me! It is a bow, a bow, or like that, or
like a sling. It ejects pellets, stones, small knives, or however
you can understand this! Try to understand what I am saying!
Please! It is dangerous! It can kill! It is like lightning! Like
lightning! I know! Please believe me, Masters!"
"Shall I demonstrate?" asked Mirus.
He was greeted by silence.
"I have no wish to kill anyone," said Mirus, "but I am
prepared to do so, if necessary."
[10:56] Jarvis Quan: SO from that point onward through several pages the weapons is discussed.
[10:57] Tali Ceriano nods respectfully to Jarvis and slips out quietly, heading for FL work...
[10:57] Jarvis Quan: "It seems," said Mirus, looking at Tersius Major crouching
down amongst the emptied pistols on the knoll, "the Priest-
Kings are silent."
There were more stirrings in the grass.
"Perhaps there is more than one way in which Priest-Kings
speak," said Portus Canio.
"Let us break camp," said Fel Doron. "It is dangerous to
This said, the men returned to the wagon, and the
tharlarion. The few possessions were gathered together and
placed in the wagon. Portus Canio and Mirus placed the
wounded man in the wagon bed.
[10:57] Jarvis Quan: Anyway if you read that book you can see it.
[10:57] Jarvis Quan: Okay we have three mnutes left, any final comment? Questions
[10:57] Kazar Bruhl: Thank you.
[10:57] lusitano Coba is Offline
[10:57] Hulapop Mahoney is Online
[10:58] Jarvis Quan: No? Then I will thank everyone for coming and I hope this has been a useful session.
[10:58] Kazar Bruhl: Very much so! Thank you again, Administrator.
[10:58] Telra Huntress: Thank you for another wonderful class
[10:58] Jarvis Quan: smiles and nods
[10:58] Scarlet Colclough: very interewsting ,,thanks
[10:59] SpRiNkLeS Artful: Thank you very much I found in very interesting
[10:59] Jarvis Quan: Next week we will discuss free companionships.
[10:59] Jarvis Quan: What is and is not in the books.
[10:59] amelia Rae: thank you Sir .. very good .. apart from my crashing
[10:59] Telra Huntress: Be well everyone
[10:59] Scarlet Colclough: aghh i wont miss that jarvis ..smiles
[10:59] Jarvis Quan: I will do the class again at 7:00pm.
[10:59] amelia Rae: be well all
[10:59] Scarlet Colclough: same time wonderful
[10:59] Flower Alderton: May I get transcrips?
[10:59] Jarvis Quan: I wish you all well.
[10:59] Pfoto Toros: Once again I appreciate your deep knowledge Jarvis and time you spend on it
[10:59] Jarvis Quan: Certainly