[15:10] Syngen Sohmers: I want to take a moment, and thank everyone for coming. We're going to hit on some sticky issues, probably some things that will get our hackles up. But let me sort of establish the methods we're working with here. I'll open the class with a shortish but detailed lecture on methods and tools of moderating RP, and then we'll open the floor for discussions.
Syngen Sohmers: The first rule is no interrupting. Even with polite stuff like saying hello to people as they come in. It mucks with the transcript and well, this not interrupting thing is something we all need to get used to.
Syngen Sohmers: I'll do a short lecture and then we'll have some open floor discussion.
Syngen Sohmers: So.. On that note. let's get started.
Syngen Sohmers: Whether we like it or not, scribes, usually because of the positions we hold in our communities, tend to be turned to for help in sorting out situations where the RP tanks out and ceases to progress. This is Moderating RP.
Syngen Sohmers: Let me blow out a few misconceptions:
Syngen Sohmers: 1. Fairness has absolutely NOTHING to do with Moderating RP.
Syngen Sohmers: 2. Moderating RP, while focused on getting RP back on track MUST be established in an OOC Setting.
Syngen Sohmers: 3. Never be afraid to use the tools available to you to establish control.
Syngen Sohmers: Now before your fingers get to typing furiously in contradictions. Let’s go over the process and I’ll show you how these concepts come into play. I’ll go through it step by step. Syngen Sohmers: 1. The Mod Call – That IM, whether in group or personal, hits you at the point where RP has stopped, OOC has degenerated into name calling, and there are usually 2 or more people getting heated and crazy at their keyboards. Ask whoever makes the call for the following information: The names of who is involved, the Log of the Questionable RP, and the location where everyone is. DO NOT let them start telling you what happened, especially if they’re one of the involved parties. Why? Because you’ll just get one aspect of the situation, and it will color your perspective. Your goal, your absolute first goal is to get the RP going again. it is NOT to resolve the conflict. Conflict makes story.
Syngen Sohmers: Besides, you're not likely to be able to resolve all the deeper psychological issues going on anyways. You just need to get the RP going on again.
Syngen Sohmers: Now here is also where I point out that if you are a Mod and involved in a conflict. Do not change tags and attempt to mod yourself.
Syngen Sohmers: Call someone else
Syngen Sohmers: If there is even the remotest chance that you can't look at this as an outsider, if you have a feeling one way or the other on who is right and who is wrong. Stop. And call in a Mod.
Syngen Sohmers: If it's your bestest buddy calling you in to help? Stop. And ask them to call on someone else.
Syngen Sohmers: You HAVE to be able to be impartial.. brutally impartial in a Moderation situation.
Syngen Sohmers: And you can see the absolute ugliest side of your friends in situations like this
Syngen Sohmers: 2. The Landing: TP in as soon as possible. Change your tag if you can. You can even go so far as to change your clothes. You need to establish two things immediately: That you are in charge, and that you are OOC. State Immediately that you are here to help. State that no one talks until you ask them to.. And state of course that your first purpose is to get the RP going again. If you need to, ask everyone to be quiet while you look through the log. Make it a point to tell them not to even IM each other. Just sit back and be quiet for a few minutes while you read through the log.
Jarvis Quan: Question
Syngen Sohmers: Those few moments of quiet can also have a narrow chance of making all the yellers stop and think a little bit before they start typing.
Syngen Sohmers gives jarvis a look "What did I say about no interruptions? Note your question and we'll hit it at the end of the talky bit."
Jarvis Quan: sorry missed that part
Syngen Sohmers: 3. Presenting the cases: Select one party and ask them to explain what they think the problem is here, in three posts or less, making it clear they are not to be interrupted. Just let them type. Go around and do the same with everyone else in the conflict. You’re not so much aiming for them to actually persuade you or alter your decision. You’re giving them that ever so important chance to vent. Forcing quiet from everyone else in that process might even help other people listen.
Syngen Sohmers: The three posts or less limit keeps them from droning on for 15 minutes about what a bitch the other person is. And the no interruptions rule keeps people from typing back at the height of being pissed off and sending the whole thing in chaos.
Syngen Sohmers: Remember you're there to get the RP back on track effectively, and efficiently.
Syngen Sohmers: 4. Making your decisions: No one is ever fully right or wrong in a conflict like this. Everyone has messed up, and therefore everyone is a victim as well. My general rule of thumb is that if everyone is equally ticked off at you? Then you’re doing it right. Look for what each person has done wrong. And what each person has done right. Then, forget about it. Shove everything away and sit down with the clean slate and come up with a workable RP Scenario in order to get RP back into gear.
Syngen Sohmers: We are not here to teach people how to RP. there are classes for that. We are simply and solely present to get the story moving again.
Syngen Sohmers: 5. Delivery of Decision and Resumption of RP: Thank everyone for their time and patience. A little ingratiating goes a long way. Then explain how the RP can progress from here. Be especially clear that everything needs to remain IC. Remind the Free they are free and the slaves they are slaves. Point out that we all have a role to play to make a great a story and so let’s get on the stick and make that great story. Remind them to always look for an IC solution as opposed to an OOC one. Remind them that fights, disagreements, and arguments in character are encouraged…as long as they can stay there. Bringing it OOC is ALWAYS the mistake.
Syngen Sohmers: Official Mods are equipped with more than a few tools to help them out when people’s anger wins out over reason. I’m going to go over these here. While you shouldn’t be afraid to use them, you should also use them sparingly. These are not a replacement for sound reasoning and an even head. But it’s also understandable that sometimes people simply will not be reasoned with at times.
Syngen Sohmers: As an Estate Manager, and/or a person with Administrative powers over your sim, your handiest tool is the freeze tool. Right click on the Av and select the “freeze” command from the pie menu. This will freeze the avatar in place. They can not move, they can not speak in open chat for 30 seconds. Hopefully, that’s enough for them to stop, take a breath and get their head back on. Make it clear before you start pushing that button that you will. Warning is usually enough to quiet folks down.
Syngen Sohmers: The Most extreme tool you have is the Eject tool. Just.. never never use this if you can. I’m real specific about the Eject/Ban button. I only use it in very specific instances. Like for griefers. People who are actually damaging the sim itself? Yeah hit the button. People in a tizzy fit? People who disagree with you? People who hurl threats at you? Brush them off. And use the next tool…
Syngen Sohmers: The MUTE button. Contrary to popular belief, the mute button is not some permanent evil iniquity only to be used by those people who never want to hear again. It is really useful when someone won’t get out of your IMs or keeps talking in open chat. Inform them that if they don’t stop talking you’ll mute them. And then, do so. After things are back on track, unmute them, and tell them that you hope, in the future you both can work on communicating instead of just talking at each other.
Syngen Sohmers: I hate saying it, because we all have this 'We are all adults perspective" but RP brings out the child in all of us. Even the greatest mods find themselves in nasty bitter RP conflicts.
Syngen Sohmers: Say "We are all adults here" in open chat. but know in your heart, that we're all five year olds fighting over crayons.
Jarvis Quan: Yes logs
Jarvis Quan: We had so much trouble with altered logs that we decided not to use them.
Syngen Sohmers: It might help then to get a log from both parties. usually the situation is fairly immediate that it's hard to alter logs. But you can usually spot an altered log pretty quickly on a skim
VolmarrGoth Vollmar raises hand
Syngen Sohmers: If they don't have Online inidcators in the log, or "You declined such and such" from a group notice. The usual spam we all get? Is an indication of an altered log.
Jarvis Quan: nods
Syngen Sohmers: Then again, an altered log doesn't really matter because what people alter is not the story itself, but their own little ugly bits
VolmarrGoth Vollmar: (you answered my question)
Syngen Sohmers: You don't care when you go into a mod situation who was ugly
Syngen Sohmers: Because everyone was ugly
Syngen Sohmers: You only care about where the story was, and where the story needs to go.
Syngen Sohmers: Another question or statement?
rdane Denja raises hand
arvis Quan: Just one thing I found was to make people move far away so no one can see each other and hear chat.
Syngen Sohmers: Irdane?
Syngen Sohmers: We'll come back to that Jarvis.
Irdane Denja: To whom may I address general questions not talked about today after the discussion?
Irdane Denja: Scribe ralated, I meant.
Syngen Sohmers: I'll be happy to carry on any discussion started here Afterwards. i'm just, as I understand kind of on a time limit. For Vonda Scribe questions, I'm sure Jarvis can point you to the right person.
Jarvis Quan: ChippyAnn or myself I guess
ChippyAnn Kamm: nods
Syngen Sohmers: To revisit Jarvis's statement about moving everyone away. It can be good to pull your parties out of the location to a skybox or other remote area.. and ONLY the parties of the conflict (Conflicts draw rubberneckers) but understand that IMs are always flying
Syngen Sohmers: And you don't want to delay at all in getting the story moving again.
Jarvis Quan: puts up his hand
Syngen Sohmers: Jarvis?
Jarvis Quan: The dreaded - It doesn't count it's OOC in IM.
Jarvis Quan: Meanwhile the one claiming it doesn't count is invariably using the most abusive masty language
Syngen Sohmers: What hits the screen counts. In IMs and in open chat. because we're affected by whatever hits our screen.
Jarvis Quan: or stating out right lies
Faith Stormwind: Tal Astary
Syngen Sohmers: And those are the people you tell "I need you to be quiet, don't IM him/her, don't IM me. We deal with this like adults, in the open."
Astary Pendragon: 1Tal Faith
Syngen Sohmers: If they persist in your IM, threaten to put that IM in open chat
Syngen Sohmers: People amazingly will not say half the stuff they do about people if the target of their nastiness gets to hear it
Jarvis Quan: Ah but that's a violationg of ToS and the lindens will get you. I've had that thrown at me.
Syngen Sohmers: And that's where your weight as a sim owner gets thrown in. If it helps, make it clear that you are not to be IMed nor is anyone else to be IMed during the discussion, and anyone who receives an IM can toss it out in open chat.
Syngen Sohmers: I actually did defeat a Linden attempt about that once.
Syngen Sohmers: Pointing out that Jurisdiction would be where the parties are located not where the server is located
Jarvis Quan: We specifically added the following but you do have to be very careful. When we made our rules we consutled the lindens and you can't throw IM into open chat without consent without violating ToS.
Jarvis Quan: 2.7
Use of IM and OOC as an excuse to cover abusive or other negative behaviour detrimental to Vonda, or to use OOC and/or IM to circumvent Vonda rules and laws, to overstep one's IC character's power, or otherwise disrupt the smooth flow of roleplay will not be tolerated. Consequences arising from IM and OOC can and do count in Vonda and can be used as the basis for banning.
Syngen Sohmers: And in flordia, which where I am. Only one party to a recorded conversation has to be aware of its recording for it to be admitted into evidence
Syngen Sohmers: The Lindens are on real shaky ground with that TOS rule
Bellisente Gravois: that is also true in Louisiana
Syngen Sohmers: Because there's not an expectation of confidentiality nor a required legal protection of coversation with just anyone.
Syngen Sohmers: It impinges actually on Doctor/Attorney priviledge
Bellisente Gravois nods
Jarvis Quan: Well they also have absolute power in here which is also part of ToS. I've enver seen or heard of them enforcing such a thing, but you will be threstened with it if you moderate.
Jarvis Quan: long enough
ChippyAnn Kamm: is there a copy of the ToS rule ?
Jarvis Quan: I've had it thrown at me three times
Bellisente Gravois: I have everyone agree in open chat that what they say will be recorded before I begin
Syngen Sohmers: And usually if you do get a nasty remark from the lindens, reminding them of that, that they're on shaky legal ground, and that it wouldn't be hard to pull up other instances to the point where suit could be filed where they violate the DMCA, usually gets them to back off.
Jarvis Quan: Good to know.
Syngen Sohmers: But yes absolutely give notice of things being recorded, logged for later use. the Lindens don't just come in and lock your account for it
Jarvis Quan: I've actually never had Linden come at me.
Jarvis Quan: Just been trheatened with it.
Syngen Sohmers: You get an IM from one, they listen, and if its reasonable and sensible, they usually just shrug their shoulders and move on
Syngen Sohmers: There's a lot more happening in the grid than someone sharing IM sex logs
Jarvis Quan: chuckling
Jarvis Quan: and they all likely sound the same after a while
Bellisente Gravois smiles
Syngen Sohmers: Also true. Think about what we do in Modding RP.. and then make it constant, make it whinier, and make it ten times more annoying
Syngen Sohmers: And that's what a Linden puts up with.
Jarvis Quan: bursts out laughing
Syngen Sohmers: Now I'm going to make a statement I'm fairly comfortable making. "All Moderation calls are the result of IC being devoured in the Face of OOC"
Syngen Sohmers: And a lot of the conflicts we deal with can be said "Deal with it IC"
Shoshawna Dharma lifts hand
Syngen Sohmers: Shasawna?
Syngen Sohmers: Shoshawna even
Shoshawna Dharma: "Sho" is easiest....<winks> We just did that recently. A situation came up that came to Mod. At the end of it the Mod said...this is something that needs to be dealt with IC...and we will send for a Magistrate.
Shoshawna Dharma: One of the parties involved with the conflict suddenly had a change of heart. He knew...
Bellisente Gravois chuckles
Shoshawna Dharma: that if this went to Magistrate he could be facing some hefty charges.
Shoshawna Dharma: So..that is our policy...resolution...IC.
Syngen Sohmers: Right. Free Women.. smack a slave. hell. Smack a man. Men.. Pop her in the mouth if she gets lippy. There's a fast way to resolve a LOT of OOC/IC Bitching
Bellisente Gravois laughs
Syngen Sohmers: but we don't. We call for magistrates and mods, we whine about how that person hates us, we start name calling and threatening and posturing...
Syngen Sohmers: And the most Gorean thing to do.. is act. Quickly, effectively, with no pretense and no long drawn out followup.
Jarvis Quan: Yes I once had a real trouble maker on the sim who constantly stirred up crap OOC and one day he made a mistake IC, I had him. I arrested him, charged him with treason, the whole thing. He finally left the sim rather than go to trial because he knew IC he would lose. BUt not without first making three different mod appeals and threatening me with the
Jarvis Quan: "moderators board".
Faith Stormwind: is there a moderator support group?
Syngen Sohmers: And you know what? Jarvis for you? Give him my name and say "Here. IM her. She's probably just working on Photoshop anyways and will be happy to settle it out.
Faith Stormwind: maybe you could ask for help in group sometimes
Jarvis Quan: Well this was before I knew you.
Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong" Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
Jarvis Quan: But I have called you to help before.
Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong" Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
Jarvis Quan: But I have called you to help before.
Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong" Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
Jarvis Quan: But I have called you to help before.
Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong"
Syngen Sohmers: So drop it and look at the story itself and where it can progress from here.
Faith Stormwind: i disagree
Faith Stormwind: i think people just have difference of opinions
Faith Stormwind: and each believe they are truly right
Syngen Sohmers: But all those differences of opinions slow things down. Moderators are like Dominoes pizza. 30 minutes or less.
Jarvis Quan: I think some people are just idiots but most issues of OOC mod I have seen occured becasue a lifestyler has just had an encounter with a gamer or sex player or vice versa.
Syngen Sohmers: At the end of the day, everyone is wrong and everyone is right.
Syngen Sohmers: And we could.. and I might suggestthat at some point, sit down with some of our Moderation situations, pick through them and see how we could have handled things better
Syngen Sohmers: I've had two women going at each other to the point where I actually did freeze both avatars in place and told them they can act like grown ups and get things back on track right now or I can eject them both right there and the city would be happy to enjoy the peace and quiet.
Jarvis Quan: chuckling
Syngen Sohmers: You absolutely have to take control, and you have to move fast. Faster than they do.
ChippyAnn Kamm: grins
Syngen Sohmers: I also. Don't let anyone get into my IMs while I'm Modding
Syngen Sohmers: I tell people I work in the open and they can too. I don't have anything to hide.
Jarvis Quan: I lke that
Syngen Sohmers: And I have.. honest to god, changed into Jeans and a Tshirt because someone was trying to use my gender to override me.
Syngen Sohmers: Amazingly, those "Manly Men" will not treat a non gorean the same way they do a Gorean
Syngen Sohmers: Because as a Mod, it's not about being a Man or a woman, a free or a slave. All you are is an outside ear and mind who helps get the story back on track
Syngen Sohmers: Don't worry over who is right and who is wrong. Just focus on what we can do from here to get the RP going.
Syngen Sohmers: Mediators.. and arbitrators work on the same principle
Syngen Sohmers: And they have a 95% success rate
Syngen Sohmers: And everyone's pissed off at them after it's done. the plaintiff didn't get as much money as they wanted. The defendant wrote a bigger check than they wanted.
Faith Stormwind: Please excuse me. I need to get back to Lara. Thank You Syngen for your instructions and thank YOu Administrator for hosting . Be well everyone
Syngen Sohmers: But it doesn't matter because the case is done.
Jarvis Quan: It does work if both parties abide by the terms of the agreement.
Syngen Sohmers: Right which they do.. begrudingly at best
Syngen Sohmers: Oh one more thing.. the "Book" argument
Jarvis Quan: rolls his eyes
Syngen Sohmers: "That's not BTB!"
Syngen Sohmers: Jarvis sums that up nicely. yeah it's worth an eyeroll.
Syngen Sohmers: Because most of the time people are trying to say "Well that's not in the books"
Jarvis Quan: My experrience has been those that are most likely to cream BTB are least likely to have ever actually read one.
Syngen Sohmers: And at that point they're trying to prove a negative.
Syngen Sohmers: Which, we all know, is impossible.
Syngen Sohmers: If they can push out a direct quote on the matter, great. Take it into consideration as you sort of recompose the storyline
Syngen Sohmers: If they can't. Which, nine times out of ten they can't.... thank them for the consideration, explain that the books, despite being a LOT of them are just not as detailed as that,. and that they should deal with things ICly.
Jarvis Quan: Have yiu eer actualy ad someone who claimed BTB who did provide a quote?
Syngen Sohmers: I have. But I ended up chasing up the sentences before and after that
Syngen Sohmers: Which sort of blew it apart.
Jarvis Quan: Ah context....
Syngen Sohmers: In that sense Gor functions a LOT like religion.
Bellisente Gravois chuckles
Syngen Sohmers: Bible thumpers, Qu'ran wavers all will pull one statement.. but not the context.
Syngen Sohmers: And because of them, we all sort of miss the point of the whole experience.
Syngen Sohmers: Chewing apart a slave that doesn't serve your bazi tea in three little cups only destroys the greater concept of defferential service that being presented in that story
Syngen Sohmers: Niow if you do it IC?
Syngen Sohmers: That would be bloody hilariously fun
Syngen Sohmers: There was a woman in Saleria who insisted that slaves, whether their owners were present or not, drop into tower around her. It would have been great fun if she had simply kept it IC.
Syngen Sohmers: There was a woman in Saleria who insisted that slaves, whether their owners were present or not, drop into tower around her. It would have been great fun if she had simply kept it IC.
Jarvis Quan: I havea rebuttal to that actually.
Jarvis Quan: WOuld you like it?
Syngen Sohmers: So definitely, remind people.. 'Wouldn't this be MORE fun to deal with IC?"
Syngen Sohmers: The Kneeling issue?
Jarvis Quan: Yes
Jarvis Quan: I'm looking for it, it's in my inventory somewhere
Syngen Sohmers laughs "I think I told her I preferred to earn such respect, not demand it. And then made some remark comparing her to Boanissia..who we all know wound up enslaved"
Irdane Denja: May I ask what is meant with the kneeling issue? Maybe I missed the point, English is not my native language.
Syngen Sohmers: Ah.. there was here in Saleria a woman who insisted on all slaves kneeling in tower in her presence. Whethere men or masters were present or not.
Syngen Sohmers: And she would go on this great IC open chat tirade on it.. which was fine, great even. But followed it up by pushing notecards of quotes onto epole
Irdane Denja: I see.
Syngen Sohmers: HHell I complain it IC. And often say "You don't have anything there I want to buy. Shut your legs."
Syngen Sohmers: But OOC? I don't care. It's interesting story, I get to be a little snarky. So that's all well and good.
Syngen Sohmers: And I'm a LOT nicer to a man who puts his slave in tower around me than I am to one who doesn
Irdane Denja: I agree.
Syngen Sohmers: 'tBut there's no reason to let that degenerate into OOC bickering
Jarvis Quan: smies but it isn't a BTB law that he has to.
Syngen Sohmers: Or OOC notecard pushing or quote mongering
Jarvis Quan: She also had a hatred of silks on girls and pushed these really ugly camisks.
Syngen Sohmers: No of course it's not. Technically, no one is the perfect Gorean either.
Jarvis Quan: I had one for my girl to wear if I needed to punish her. It was more effective than whipping.
Syngen Sohmers: There is no perfectly honorable warrior. No perfectly logical scribe, no perfectly modest free woman
Syngen Sohmers: We all have our own perspectives on our roles
Irdane Denja nods
Syngen Sohmers: And we have to remind people of that, to respect it, and to deal with it IC
Syngen Sohmers: ICly I'd probably make some snarky remark about all of you running about with your heads uncovered.. and likely IM you to ask where you got that hair :)
Shoshawna Dharma raises hand
Syngen Sohmers: And that's something we all need to remember. IC conflict is a wonderful and interesting thing
Syngen Sohmers: Sho?
Shoshawna Dharma: Just a little side note....for fun....one night a group of panthers came into our city dressed as FW. Well, the men were on high alert....durn profile readers....but the FW....we went into high gear. We openly gossiped....in hushed tones about the tacky gowns, nasty looking hair....etc.
Shoshawna Dharma: It was our "Tacky Gown" defense.
Syngen Sohmers: And suggest stuff like this while you're modding
Shoshawna Dharma nods
Syngen Sohmers: And yeah the tacky gown defense always works
Shoshawna Dharma: Well...the Panthers were in our IMz just hysterical....
Shoshawna Dharma: they loved it.
Syngen Sohmers: Cloesly followed by the "Women's gauntlet" at
the docks.
Syngen Sohmers: Where the women line up and and make the men walk through while they point out how they smell, or look funny or whatever :)
Syngen Sohmers: Which means if one of your friends is involve,d send them to someone else
Astary Pendragon: I need to go as well, nice seeing all of you *smiles
Syngen Sohmers: Handle it as Quickly as possible
Astary Pendragon: hahaha
Jarvis Quan: Excuse me, I have an IC matter to deal with.
Bellisente Gravois laughs
Syngen Sohmers: But...I've eaten up a lot of your time
Jarvis Quan: idiot slave girl
Syngen Sohmers: So the points I want you to caryr away from here.
Jarvis Quan: visiting priate sims
Syngen Sohmers: If you have to Mod. Be Completely unbiased
Syngen Sohmers: Which means if one of your friends is involve,d send them to someone else
Astary Pendragon: I need to go as well, nice seeing all of you *smiles
Syngen Sohmers: Handle it as Quickly as possible
Shoshawna Dharma: Be well dear Astary.
Bellisente Gravois: I've been missing out on some fun
Syngen Sohmers: And don't worry over who is right or wrong. Just get the RP going
Syngen Sohmers: Always look for the IC solution and dismiss the OOC drama
Syngen Sohmers: I'll call class dismissed
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Syngen Sohmers: Official Mods are equipped with more than a few tools to help them out when people’s anger wins out over reason. I’m going to go over these here. While you shouldn’t be afraid to use them, you should also use them sparingly. These are not a replacement for sound reasoning and an even head. But it’s also understandable that sometimes people simply will not be reasoned with at times.
[15:26] Syngen Sohmers: As an Estate Manager, and/or a person with Administrative powers over your sim, your handiest tool is the freeze tool. Right click on the Av and select the “freeze” command from the pie menu. This will freeze the avatar in place. They can not move, they can not speak in open chat for 30 seconds. Hopefully, that’s enough for them to stop, take a breath and get their head back on. Make it clear before you start pushing that button that you will. Warning is usually enough to quiet folks down.
[15:26] Syngen Sohmers: The Most extreme tool you have is the Eject tool. Just.. never never use this if you can. I’m real specific about the Eject/Ban button. I only use it in very specific instances. Like for griefers. People who are actually damaging the sim itself? Yeah hit the button. People in a tizzy fit? People who disagree with you? People who hurl threats at you? Brush them off. And use the next tool…
[15:27] Syngen Sohmers: The MUTE button. Contrary to popular belief, the mute button is not some permanent evil iniquity only to be used by those people who never want to hear again. It is really useful when someone won’t get out of your IMs or keeps talking in open chat. Inform them that if they don’t stop talking you’ll mute them. And then, do so. After things are back on track, unmute them, and tell them that you hope, in the future you both can work on communicating instead of just talking at each other.
Syngen Sohmers: I hate saying it, because we all have this 'We are all adults perspective" but RP brings out the child in all of us. Even the greatest mods find themselves in nasty bitter RP conflicts.
[15:28] Syngen Sohmers: Say "We are all adults here" in open chat. but know in your heart, that we're all five year olds fighting over crayons.
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Jarvis Quan: Yes logs
[15:31] Jarvis Quan: We had so much trouble with altered logs that we decided not to use them.
[15:31] Syngen Sohmers: It might help then to get a log from both parties. usually the situation is fairly immediate that it's hard to alter logs. But you can usually spot an altered log pretty quickly on a skim
[15:32] VolmarrGoth Vollmar raises hand
[15:32] Syngen Sohmers: If they don't have Online inidcators in the log, or "You declined such and such" from a group notice. The usual spam we all get? Is an indication of an altered log.
[15:32] Jarvis Quan: nods
[15:32] Syngen Sohmers: Then again, an altered log doesn't really matter because what people alter is not the story itself, but their own little ugly bits
[15:32] VolmarrGoth Vollmar: (you answered my question)
Syngen Sohmers: You don't care when you go into a mod situation who was ugly
[15:33] Syngen Sohmers: Because everyone was ugly
[15:33] Syngen Sohmers: You only care about where the story was, and where the story needs to go.
Syngen Sohmers: Another question or statement?
[15:34] Irdane Denja raises hand
[15:34] Jarvis Quan: Just one thing I found was to make people move far away so no one can see each other and hear chat.
[15:34] Syngen Sohmers: Irdane?
[15:34] Syngen Sohmers: We'll come back to that Jarvis.
Irdane Denja: To whom may I address general questions not talked about today after the discussion?
[15:35] Irdane Denja: Scribe ralated, I meant.
Syngen Sohmers: I'll be happy to carry on any discussion started here Afterwards. i'm just, as I understand kind of on a time limit. For Vonda Scribe questions, I'm sure Jarvis can point you to the right person.
[15:36] Jarvis Quan: ChippyAnn or myself I guess
[15:36] ChippyAnn Kamm: nods
---------------------------------------------------
Irdane Denja: Thank You very much.
[15:37] Syngen Sohmers: To revisit Jarvis's statement about moving everyone away. It can be good to pull your parties out of the location to a skybox or other remote area.. and ONLY the parties of the conflict (Conflicts draw rubberneckers) but understand that IMs are always flying
[15:37] Syngen Sohmers: And you don't want to delay at all in getting the story moving again.
[15:37] Jarvis Quan: puts up his hand
[15:37] Syngen Sohmers: Jarvis?
Jarvis Quan: The dreaded - It doesn't count it's OOC in IM.
[15:38] Jarvis Quan: Meanwhile the one claiming it doesn't count is invariably using the most abusive masty language
[15:38] Syngen Sohmers: What hits the screen counts. In IMs and in open chat. because we're affected by whatever hits our screen.
[15:38] Jarvis Quan: or stating out right lies
Faith Stormwind: Tal Astary
[15:39] Syngen Sohmers: And those are the people you tell "I need you to be quiet, don't IM him/her, don't IM me. We deal with this like adults, in the open."
[15:39] Astary Pendragon: 1Tal Faith
[15:39] Master69691 Scribe is Online
[15:39] Syngen Sohmers: If they persist in your IM, threaten to put that IM in open chat
Syngen Sohmers: People amazingly will not say half the stuff they do about people if the target of their nastiness gets to hear it
[15:40] Jarvis Quan: Ah but that's a violationg of ToS and the lindens will get you. I've had that thrown at me.
Syngen Sohmers: And that's where your weight as a sim owner gets thrown in. If it helps, make it clear that you are not to be IMed nor is anyone else to be IMed during the discussion, and anyone who receives an IM can toss it out in open chat.
[15:41] Syngen Sohmers: I actually did defeat a Linden attempt about that once.
Syngen Sohmers: Pointing out that Jurisdiction would be where the parties are located not where the server is located
[15:41] Jarvis Quan: We specifically added the following but you do have to be very careful. When we made our rules we consutled the lindens and you can't throw IM into open chat without consent without violating ToS.
[15:41] Jarvis Quan: 2.7
Use of IM and OOC as an excuse to cover abusive or other negative behaviour detrimental to Vonda, or to use OOC and/or IM to circumvent Vonda rules and laws, to overstep one's IC character's power, or otherwise disrupt the smooth flow of roleplay will not be tolerated. Consequences arising from IM and OOC can and do count in Vonda and can be used as the basis for banning.
[15:42] Syngen Sohmers: And in flordia, which where I am. Only one party to a recorded conversation has to be aware of its recording for it to be admitted into evidence
Syngen Sohmers: The Lindens are on real shaky ground with that TOS rule
[15:42] Bellisente Gravois: that is also true in Louisiana
[15:42] Syngen Sohmers: Because there's not an expectation of confidentiality nor a required legal protection of coversation with just anyone.
[15:43] Syngen Sohmers: It impinges actually on Doctor/Attorney priviledge
[15:43] Nickolai Zelmanov is Offline
[15:43] Bellisente Gravois nods
[15:43] Jarvis Quan: Well they also have absolute power in here which is also part of ToS. I've enver seen or heard of them enforcing such a thing, but you will be threstened with it if you moderate.
[15:43] Jarvis Quan: long enough
[15:43] ChippyAnn Kamm: is there a copy of the ToS rule ?
[15:43] Jarvis Quan: I've had it thrown at me three times
Bellisente Gravois: I have everyone agree in open chat that what they say will be recorded before I begin
[15:44] Syngen Sohmers: And usually if you do get a nasty remark from the lindens, reminding them of that, that they're on shaky legal ground, and that it wouldn't be hard to pull up other instances to the point where suit could be filed where they violate the DMCA, usually gets them to back off.
Jarvis Quan: Good to know.
[15:45] Syngen Sohmers: But yes absolutely give notice of things being recorded, logged for later use. the Lindens don't just come in and lock your account for it
[15:45] Jarvis Quan: I've actually never had Linden come at me.
[15:45] Jarvis Quan: Just been trheatened with it.
[15:45] Syngen Sohmers: You get an IM from one, they listen, and if its reasonable and sensible, they usually just shrug their shoulders and move on
[15:45] Syngen Sohmers: There's a lot more happening in the grid than someone sharing IM sex logs
[15:45] Jarvis Quan: chuckling
Jarvis Quan: and they all likely sound the same after a while
[15:45] Bellisente Gravois smiles
Syngen Sohmers: Also true. Think about what we do in Modding RP.. and then make it constant, make it whinier, and make it ten times more annoying
[15:46] Syngen Sohmers: And that's what a Linden puts up with.
[15:46] Jarvis Quan: bursts out laughing
Syngen Sohmers: Now I'm going to make a statement I'm fairly comfortable making. "All Moderation calls are the result of IC being devoured in the Face of OOC"
Syngen Sohmers: And a lot of the conflicts we deal with can be said "Deal with it IC"
Shoshawna Dharma lifts hand
[15:48] Syngen Sohmers: Shasawna?
[15:48] Syngen Sohmers: Shoshawna even
Shoshawna Dharma: "Sho" is easiest....<winks> We just did that recently. A situation came up that came to Mod. At the end of it the Mod said...this is something that needs to be dealt with IC...and we will send for a Magistrate.
Shoshawna Dharma: One of the parties involved with the conflict suddenly had a change of heart. He knew...
[15:49] Bellisente Gravois chuckles
[15:49] Shoshawna Dharma: that if this went to Magistrate he could be facing some hefty charges.
[15:49] Shoshawna Dharma: So..that is our policy...resolution...IC.
Syngen Sohmers: Right. Free Women.. smack a slave. hell. Smack a man. Men.. Pop her in the mouth if she gets lippy. There's a fast way to resolve a LOT of OOC/IC Bitching
[15:50] Bellisente Gravois laughs
[15:51] Syngen Sohmers: but we don't. We call for magistrates and mods, we whine about how that person hates us, we start name calling and threatening and posturing...
Syngen Sohmers: And the most Gorean thing to do.. is act. Quickly, effectively, with no pretense and no long drawn out followup.
[15:51] Jarvis Quan: Yes I once had a real trouble maker on the sim who constantly stirred up crap OOC and one day he made a mistake IC, I had him. I arrested him, charged him with treason, the whole thing. He finally left the sim rather than go to trial because he knew IC he would lose. BUt not without first making three different mod appeals and threatening me with the
[15:51] Jarvis Quan: "moderators board".
Faith Stormwind: is there a moderator support group?
[15:52] Syngen Sohmers: And you know what? Jarvis for you? Give him my name and say "Here. IM her. She's probably just working on Photoshop anyways and will be happy to settle it out.
[15:52] Faith Stormwind: maybe you could ask for help in group sometimes
[15:52] Jarvis Quan: Well this was before I knew you.
Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
[15:52] Jarvis Quan: But I have called you to help before.
[15:53] Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong" Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
[15:52] Jarvis Quan: But I have called you to help before.
[15:53] Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong" Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
[15:52] Jarvis Quan: But I have called you to help before.
[15:53] Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong" Syngen Sohmers: You know I had considered that at one point. But one of the nasty things that happens with a group like that is you end up picking apart who was right and who was wrong.
[15:52] Jarvis Quan: But I have called you to help before.
[15:53] Syngen Sohmers: And I honest to god need to drive this point home 'Everyone is wrong"
Syngen Sohmers: So drop it and look at the story itself and where it can progress from here.
[15:53] Faith Stormwind: i disagree
[15:53] Faith Stormwind: i think people just have difference of opinions
Faith Stormwind: and each believe they are truly right
Syngen Sohmers: But all those differences of opinions slow things down. Moderators are like Dominoes pizza. 30 minutes or less.
[15:54] Jarvis Quan: I think some people are just idiots but most issues of OOC mod I have seen occured becasue a lifestyler has just had an encounter with a gamer or sex player or vice versa.
[15:54] Syngen Sohmers: At the end of the day, everyone is wrong and everyone is right.
Syngen Sohmers: And we could.. and I might suggestthat at some point, sit down with some of our Moderation situations, pick through them and see how we could have handled things better
Syngen Sohmers: I've had two women going at each other to the point where I actually did freeze both avatars in place and told them they can act like grown ups and get things back on track right now or I can eject them both right there and the city would be happy to enjoy the peace and quiet.
[15:56] Jarvis Quan: chuckling
Syngen Sohmers: You absolutely have to take control, and you have to move fast. Faster than they do.
[15:56] ChippyAnn Kamm: grins
Syngen Sohmers: I also. Don't let anyone get into my IMs while I'm Modding
[15:57] Syngen Sohmers: I tell people I work in the open and they can too. I don't have anything to hide.
Jarvis Quan: I lke that
[15:57] Hug Attachment: M&P Hug Attachment ready.
[15:57] Syngen Sohmers: And I have.. honest to god, changed into Jeans and a Tshirt because someone was trying to use my gender to override me.
[15:58] Syngen Sohmers: Amazingly, those "Manly Men" will not treat a non gorean the same way they do a Gorean
[15:59] Syngen Sohmers: Because as a Mod, it's not about being a Man or a woman, a free or a slave. All you are is an outside ear and mind who helps get the story back on track
[15:59] Syngen Sohmers: Don't worry over who is right and who is wrong. Just focus on what we can do from here to get the RP going.
Syngen Sohmers: Mediators.. and arbitrators work on the same principle
[16:00] Syngen Sohmers: And they have a 95% success rate
[16:00] Syngen Sohmers: And everyone's pissed off at them after it's done. the plaintiff didn't get as much money as they wanted. The defendant wrote a bigger check than they wanted.
[16:00] Faith Stormwind: Please excuse me. I need to get back to Lara. Thank You Syngen for your instructions and thank YOu Administrator for hosting . Be well everyone
[16:00] Syngen Sohmers: But it doesn't matter because the case is done.
Jarvis Quan: It does work if both parties abide by the terms of the agreement.
[16:01] VolmarrGoth Vollmar: be well
[16:01] Syngen Sohmers: Take care faith :)
[16:01] Syngen Sohmers: Right which they do.. begrudingly at best
[16:01] Syngen Sohmers: Oh one more thing.. the "Book" argument
[16:01] Jarvis Quan: rolls his eyes
[16:01] Syngen Sohmers: "That's not BTB!"
Syngen Sohmers: Jarvis sums that up nicely. yeah it's worth an eyeroll.
[16:02] Syngen Sohmers: Because most of the time people are trying to say "Well that's not in the books"
[16:02] Jarvis Quan: My experrience has been those that are most likely to cream BTB are least likely to have ever actually read one.
[16:02] Syngen Sohmers: And at that point they're trying to prove a negative.
[16:02] Syngen Sohmers: Which, we all know, is impossible.
[16:03] Syngen Sohmers: If they can push out a direct quote on the matter, great. Take it into consideration as you sort of recompose the storyline
Syngen Sohmers: If they can't. Which, nine times out of ten they can't.... thank them for the consideration, explain that the books, despite being a LOT of them are just not as detailed as that,. and that they should deal with things ICly.
[16:04] Jarvis Quan: Have yiu eer actualy ad someone who claimed BTB who did provide a quote?
[16:04] Syngen Sohmers: I have. But I ended up chasing up the sentences before and after that
[16:04] Syngen Sohmers: Which sort of blew it apart.
[16:04] Jarvis Quan: Ah context....
[16:04] Syngen Sohmers: In that sense Gor functions a LOT like religion.
Bellisente Gravois chuckles
[16:05] Syngen Sohmers: Bible thumpers, Qu'ran wavers all will pull one statement.. but not the context.
[16:05] Syngen Sohmers: And because of them, we all sort of miss the point of the whole experience.
Syngen Sohmers: Chewing apart a slave that doesn't serve your bazi tea in three little cups only destroys the greater concept of defferential service that being presented in that story
[16:06] Syngen Sohmers: Niow if you do it IC?
[16:06] Syngen Sohmers: That would be bloody hilariously fun
Syngen Sohmers: There was a woman in Saleria who insisted that slaves, whether their owners were present or not, drop into tower around her. It would have been great fun if she had simply kept it IC.
Syngen Sohmers: There was a woman in Saleria who insisted that slaves, whether their owners were present or not, drop into tower around her. It would have been great fun if she had simply kept it IC.
Jarvis Quan: I havea rebuttal to that actually.
[16:07] Jarvis Quan: WOuld you like it?
Syngen Sohmers: So definitely, remind people.. 'Wouldn't this be MORE fun to deal with IC?"
[16:08] Syngen Sohmers: The Kneeling issue?
[16:08] Jarvis Quan: Yes
Jarvis Quan: I'm looking for it, it's in my inventory somewhere
[16:09] Syngen Sohmers laughs "I think I told her I preferred to earn such respect, not demand it. And then made some remark comparing her to Boanissia..who we all know wound up enslaved"
Irdane Denja: May I ask what is meant with the kneeling issue? Maybe I missed the point, English is not my native language.
[16:10] Syngen Sohmers: Ah.. there was here in Saleria a woman who insisted on all slaves kneeling in tower in her presence. Whethere men or masters were present or not.
genitals.
[16:11] Syngen Sohmers: And she would go on this great IC open chat tirade on it.. which was fine, great even. But followed it up by pushing notecards of quotes onto epole
[16:11] Irdane Denja: I see.
[16:11] Syngen Sohmers: HHell I complain it IC. And often say "You don't have anything there I want to buy. Shut your legs."
Syngen Sohmers: But OOC? I don't care. It's interesting story, I get to be a little snarky. So that's all well and good.
[16:12] Syngen Sohmers: And I'm a LOT nicer to a man who puts his slave in tower around me than I am to one who doesn
[16:12] Irdane Denja: I agree.
[16:12] Syngen Sohmers: 'tBut there's no reason to let that degenerate into OOC bickering
[16:13] Jarvis Quan: smies but it isn't a BTB law that he has to.
[16:13] Syngen Sohmers: Or OOC notecard pushing or quote mongering
Jarvis Quan: She also had a hatred of silks on girls and pushed these really ugly camisks.
[16:13] Syngen Sohmers: No of course it's not. Technically, no one is the perfect Gorean either.
[16:13] Jarvis Quan: I had one for my girl to wear if I needed to punish her. It was more effective than whipping.
Syngen Sohmers: There is no perfectly honorable warrior. No perfectly logical scribe, no perfectly modest free woman
[16:14] Syngen Sohmers: We all have our own perspectives on our roles
Irdane Denja nods
[16:14] Syngen Sohmers: And we have to remind people of that, to respect it, and to deal with it IC
Syngen Sohmers: ICly I'd probably make some snarky remark about all of you running about with your heads uncovered.. and likely IM you to ask where you got that hair :)
[16:15] Shoshawna Dharma raises hand
[16:15] Syngen Sohmers: And that's something we all need to remember. IC conflict is a wonderful and interesting thing
[16:15] Syngen Sohmers: Sho?
Shoshawna Dharma: Just a little side note....for fun....one night a group of panthers came into our city dressed as FW. Well, the men were on high alert....durn profile readers....but the FW....we went into high gear. We openly gossiped....in hushed tones about the tacky gowns, nasty looking hair....etc.
[16:17] Shoshawna Dharma: It was our "Tacky Gown" defense.
[16:17] Syngen Sohmers: And suggest stuff like this while you're modding
[16:17] Shoshawna Dharma nods
[16:17] Syngen Sohmers: And yeah the tacky gown defense always works
Shoshawna Dharma: Well...the Panthers were in our IMz just hysterical....
[16:18] Shoshawna Dharma: they loved it.
[16:18] Syngen Sohmers: Cloesly followed by the "Women's gauntlet" at the docks.
[16:18] Syngen Sohmers: Where the women line up and and make the men walk through while they point out how they smell, or look funny or whatever :)
Syngen Sohmers: Which means if one of your friends is involve,d send them to someone else
[16:19] Astary Pendragon: I need to go as well, nice seeing all of you *smiles
[16:19] Syngen Sohmers: Handle it as Quickly as possible
Astary Pendragon: hahaha
[16:18] Jarvis Quan: Excuse me, I have an IC matter to deal with.
[16:18] Bellisente Gravois laughs
[16:18] Syngen Sohmers: But...I've eaten up a lot of your time
[16:19] Jarvis Quan: idiot slave girl
[16:19] Syngen Sohmers: So the points I want you to caryr away from here.
[16:19] Jarvis Quan: visiting priate sims
[16:19] Syngen Sohmers: If you have to Mod. Be Completely unbiased
[16:19] Syngen Sohmers: Which means if one of your friends is involve,d send them to someone else
[16:19] Astary Pendragon: I need to go as well, nice seeing all of you *smiles
[16:19] Syngen Sohmers: Handle it as Quickly as possible
[16:19] Shoshawna Dharma: Be well dear Astary.
[16:19] Bellisente Gravois: I've been missing out on some fun
[16:19] Syngen Sohmers: And don't worry over who is right or wrong. Just get the RP going
[16:20] Selena Sigal is Offline
[16:20] (OOC) Bellisente Gravois: sorry bad chat lag
[16:20] Syngen Sohmers: Always look for the IC solution and dismiss the OOC drama
[16:20] VolmarrGoth Vollmar: I wish you all well.. must go also
[16:20] Syngen Sohmers: And on that note
[16:20] Syngen Sohmers: I'll call class dismissed
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